Posts by Cold Steel

1

I Want Money $$$

by Cold Steel in

something unique from 1979.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gzjm-6yuqc .

..

Cold Steel

Something unique from 1979.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gzjm-6yUQc

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139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Randy: The terms "ministerial servant" and "elder" are drawn from NT Greek. Jehovah's Witnesses sincerely believe they are following 1st century Biblical patterns in how they are organized. Even how local congregations are named, such as the naming of "Union Hills" in Phoenix, where I was an elder, reflect upon patterns of congregation naming in Revelation and Paul's NT writings.

The question is whether the ancient church can be established with only a Bible? Alexander Campbell and Charles T. Russell thought so. But their churches have completely different doctrines. In fact, most churches think the Bible is the source of their authority, but the problem is, Campbell’s followers think Russell’s followers are going to burn in an eternal hell while Russell’s followers think Campbell’s followers will be annihilated at Armageddon. It doesn’t matter whether the people are good or evil, or what they’ve done for their fellow man, one God is pitted against another and that the losers are bruisers!

Is the Bible supposed to be a source of authority? Of course not. Papyrus scrolls cannot be a source of divine authority any more than a ministerial certificate bought off the Internet can. The Bible is neither complete nor inerrant. It doesn’t tell us how to baptize, who can baptize, what to say during the baptism or whether sprinkling will do when circumstances render it impossible to do otherwise. Also, can women baptize if no one else is available? How about the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost? Is that still necessary? (The LDS are the only Christians that I know of that still does it.) Again, if so, who can do it? How is it done? What are the words said and, again, can women do it? How about ordinations? Does baptism confer priesthood? If so, what kind of priesthood? What are the duties of bishops? Elders? Priests? Deacons?

These are only a few examples of things the Bible is silent on. Campbell’s church operates on the adage: “Where the Bible speaks, we speak; where the Bible is silent, we are silent.” Since the Bible says nothing of musical instruments in church ceremonies, the Campbellites have no pianos or organs. And even though the Bible doesn’t authorize church hymnals, they let that slide and include them.

There’s only one source of authority in the Bible, and that’s God. And people have to be called and ordained by someone in authority. And if you belong to another church, there’s nothing in the scriptures that say you’ll be annihilated or condemned to hell. Elane Durham was a Catholic woman who had a near death experience (fully documented with medical records and statements of people who were there when she passed). She said that she asked her angelic guide which church on Earth was right:

This was in 1976. Her account was investigated by George G. Ritchie, whose own near death experience inspired Raymond Moody to dedicate his life to investigating these experiences. Ritchie said “[A] facet of her book that I feel is extremely important, is the fact that her death has been verified by both the medical profession and the Catholic Deacon who administered her the Last Rites. I say this because so many people are writing about their NDEs today who can produce no proof of their having been anywhere near death.”

In the early 90s, Elane joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after searching various churches throughout Christianity. Her account proves nothing, however, and I realize that; but I find it significant in that I’ve read of no other near-death account where someone has even asked about churches during such an experience. And while her guide answered her, he didn’t name the LDS church, but simply explained that one should look for a church based on the same precepts as the ancient Christian church. In other accounts by other people, I don’t know of one person who was asked which church they belonged to. Instead, they were asked, “What have you done for your fellow man?” That doesn’t mean it’s not important; however, it does indicate that the Savior is more interested in what is in your heart. And people who belong to religions that exclude others from salvation will, I think, find their own salvation in jeopardy.

Cofty: Ex-Mormons.org

If you’ve ever studied anti-Christian writings, you’ll see the same techniques used to discredit it. I’ll put all these things in the believe it or don’t category. I had an early Philosophy professor who used similar charges against the Christian faith. Satan is said to be an “accuser,” and I would take your accusations more seriously if you didn’t cut and paste them from questionable sources. I suggest you spend more time at FairMormon.org and Jeff Lindsay’s website before pasting the railing accusations.

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139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Randy: [Did] they remain Witnesses? This thread confirms...[that] few Ex-JWs become LDS members. And likewise few LDS members become Witnesses. ... I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "dropped like hot potatoes," but it sounds like other LDS members were wishing to blame your family for this change?

Nope. They dropped the whole family. You’re also correct that Jehovah’s Witnesses rarely become Mormons, whether they’re active or ex-. And I understand why. Any person leaving any church in bitterness feels that they’ve been manipulated, deceived, and that they’ve wasted a lot of time for nothing. That’s why many become atheists. But at the same time it’s foolish to put the Mormons in the same category as the WTBTS. There’s no ritual shunning, Latter-day Saints can visit any church they want or read any religious materials they wish. They can ask any question they wish in the various classes, they’re not forced into doing missionary work, they’re actually encouraged to seek the highest education they can, and our scholars are known also for the work they do outside of the church and are recognized for the work they do in ancient scripture, apocryphal works, archeology, geology, anthropology and many other areas. The Latter-day Saints are completely different, but there’s no convincing some people.

Randy: Witnesses are fond of quoting Ezekiel 18:4 to show the soul is not immortal and can die and Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead are unconscious. Annihilation at death is one thing the Witnesses have been consistent about, since their start as International Bible Students. It seems to have stemmed from a general dislike of the hell-fire doctrine by Charles Russell (founder of the Bible Students). In reality it is obvious that death ends animated life.

Yes, the soul that sinneth shall die, according to Ezekiel. But what is death? It’s a separation. Spiritual death is a separation of man and God. Physical death is the separation of the body and spirit. As for Ecclesiastes, it’s clearly a philosophic book and not an eschatological book. If written by Solomon, we have to remember that he was seduced by women of other cultures, and that he allowed them to erect altars to their gods. His life was largely a disappointment. The author of Ecclesiastes was a bitter man who saw human knowledge and progress as insignificant. He also said that “And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it. Vanity of vanities, said the preacher, the whole is vanity.” (12:7) In other words, man comes to the earth, lives his life, then returns to God, and what does he accomplish? Jeremiah was told that he was known by the Lord before he came to the earth (Jer. 1:5). And the apostles asked Jesus, “Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?” (John 9:2) How could that man sin before his birth if he did not exist? Jesus made no attempt to correct them. Peter also tells us that Jesus, while he was gone from his body, “preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” (1 Pet. 4:6) How could he preach to the dead if they were not aware? As we’ve discussed on this board, if people are not eternal, those who are resurrected would be merely exact duplicates of the original person. They would not be the original. Once you blink out of existence, God can only bring you back by creating a duplicate being with all of your thoughts and memories. That person wouldn’t know any different, because he would have all your thoughts and memories, but the you that now exists would be gone forever.

You’re also correct that death ends animated life. If you’ve ever lost a family member or friend, or if you’ve ever had an animal as a pet, once dead, the body looks different. It’s clearly a shell in which the spirit, an eternal being, resides.

Randy: When we see injustice, we want to see it dealt with. ... When a child is born into poverty and dies before the age of 5, it reeks of injustice. How can this be solved?

Injustice? How? The Lord has stated that children who die return to the Lord and will inherit eternal life, without the necessity of going through the pain and suffering of human life. I wish I could have died that young, though if I had, I don’t think I would have appreciated death and a return to God as much. Most righteous people who suffer death recount that it’s like having a tremendous burden lifted from their shoulders. On the other hand, many of those who live selfish, hedonistic lifestyles or reject the existence of God experience fear and for that reason refuse to move on. Many remain in the land of the living, being neither seen nor heard, fearful that if they move on, that they will suffer punishment.

Randy:Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are ordained ministers.

Indeed they do. But from whence do they get their authority? They certainly aren’t ordained. They also don’t have the opportunity of baptizing their friends or children. I was actually ordained, and I have a lineage of my priesthood. I also baptized my father a few years ago shortly before his death, and it was a tremendous thrill and honor to do so. But if Jehovah’s Witnesses are ordained, how does it happen? Hands on head? No, by baptism, and that is completely unscriptural.

Randy:Believing Witnesses would likely say "how dare they..." in regards to the claims of made by the LDS leaders, "see, our leaders are much more humble" they would claim. Pragmatically, though, it works out to be about the same.

They may surmise such, but do the JW Governing Body members see visions, have angelic ministrations? In the early days of the LDS church, after Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered, many of the apostles were spread all over the U.S. and I think one or two may have been in Europe. Many of the apostles who were closest to Nauvoo, the home of the saints, received revelations telling them to return immediately and not to reorganize until a majority of the Twelve was present. Turning to Jerusalem, John writes in Revelation 11 that two prophets will be raised up by the Lord to defend Judah during Armageddon. Both will have the power of the ancient prophets and will keep the Beast and the False Prophet from progressing from the valley into the city. But after 42 months, the enemy will break through and kill them. How can they be prophets if they aren’t called and ordained? How can the Jews build their temple and sanctify it, and offer sacrifices, if the Jewish Cohens (priests) aren’t taught how to do it?

Barry: Have any artifacts been found mentioned in the Book of Mormon that are found in the Americas? Things like arrow heads, coins or art works? Have any of the numerous cities been found also mentioned in the Book of Mormon? The flora and fauna in the Book of Mormon is also false isn't it?

Oh, yes. The Book of Mormon talks about a son of King Zedekiah who was led to the Americas and thus escaped the destruction of Jerusalem. His name was Mulek, and he and those he came with settled in the land; however, because Mulek and his family did not have a copy of the Hebrew scriptures with them, they lost their identities, their language, and they assimilated into other peoples. When the Nephites discovered them years later, they couldn’t even communicate with them, but because the Nephites had a copy of the scriptures on brass plates, they were able to tell the Mulekites about their origins.

Critics say that Joseph Smith erred in adding that part to the Book of Mormon because all of Zedekiah’s sons were killed in front of the king, and then he was blinded, so this was the last thing he saw before losing his sight. In recent years, however, archeologists have uncovered evidence that Zedekiah did have a son named MLK. Since the vowels were removed, we have only the consonants, but they have recovered his royal seal. If Joseph Smith invented the story, how could he have known all about the Arabian deserts, how could he have provided perfect directions in the Old World without a single error, and why does the Book of Mormon text contain chiasms and other Hebraisms? Even when Isaiah is quoted in the Book of Mormon, it’s almost entirely what scholars have termed “First Isaiah” (on the theory that there were at least four writers who contributed to the book). The other two references were from “Second Isaiah.” This would indicate that these Isaiah passages were all originals and written by Isaiah.

There are many other evidences that the Book of Mormon is a genuine history. Going back to Mulek, he most likely came to the New World with some Phoenicians. Three reasons. First, Zedekiah had trading treaties with the Phoenicians. Two, the Phoenicians were outstanding sailors and were really the only ones with the technology to make the trip. Finally, the primary river in the Book of Mormon lands is called “Sidon.” Why would Jews name a river after a Phoenician city? Yet the Book of Mormon is silent on why the river was called Sidon.

This seal dates to the time of the reign of king Zedekiah. The
actual stamp or ‘seal’ has the surface size of smaller coin
though its thickness is greater. The stone stamp or seal is
at the right first column and the second column contains a
clay impression left by the stamp and a detailed artist’s
reproduction of the actual Hebrew characters. The one half
of the seal ‘spells’ out in Hebrew the name which would be
pronounced as (lemalkiyahu) or “to Malkiyahu” meaning
‘belonging to Malkiyahu’. And the other half of the seal
registry reads “ben hamelek” which translates
‘ben - son of’ ‘ha - the’ and ‘melek - king’.

Source

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20

Guns

by Brother Mike in

does anyone know why people say as jws you can't have guns.

i've asked people at the hall and they say jws aren't supposed to have guns.

i asked them why, and they all say just because we're not supposed to.

Cold Steel

The JWs believe the Bible is a handbook. It's not. Under the law of Moses, self defense was looked upon as completely allowable. There were certain restrictions, such if an intruder entered your home at night, the homeowner could assume the intruder was willing to take a life if discovered. If caught during the day, however, killing him would be manslaughter unless some disability on the part of the homeowner was a mitigating factor. An old man could probably mitigate taking the life of a younger and much stronger man.

The New Testament was primarily written to the churches and religious leaders. Self defense can certainly be shown to be allowable in the sense of, if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Back then, your cloak was essential to your survival against the elements, and most people only had one, while the wealthy had several. Still, there's no specific prohibition that I'm aware of where one is forbidden to defend one's self and family. In fact, any man who wouldn't defend himself and his family is a coward, and any woman who wouldn't defend her children is equally as detestible.

In one case in the mid-west, a man was advancing on a woman with a handgun. She couldn't bring herself to shoot and the intruder knew it. So as she stood there shaking, he advanced on her, grinning. Then things changed. Her young 4-year old son came into the room and the intruder turned to grab him. Before he could take a step, she emptied the six-shot revolver into him, killing him on the spot. She couldn't shoot to save herself, but her child was different.

I've often thought about that woman and what happened in her future. I just know the intruder should have left as soon as the child came into the room.

As a journalist, a number of years ago I interviewed a former burgler turned security consultant. When I asked him what caused him to give up his life of crime, he told me he was in someone's home one evening, a heavy cloth bag at his side in which he was putting various goodies. "I didn't think anyone was home," he told me. "I was a burgler. If I'd wanted to meet people," he added, smiling, "I would have been a mugger." As he was dropping things into his bag, he said, he heard the scariest sound a burglar could hear. "It was the sound of an automatic pistol chambering a round." He couldn't tell exactly where the sound had come from, but it was enough to cause him to flee, leaving his bag in the person's living room. "I never burgled after that," he said. Like anyone else, intruders can be scared. "It's not like it is in the movies, where the bad guy is all but invincible." The homeowner might have been frightened, he said, but for him it was a "lifechanging event."

Guns? I pity those people in the U.K., Australia and Canada. I was surprised to learn that many people in the U.K. were buying deactivated handguns and rifles and paying more for them than we Americans are paying for the real guns. It's a right we cherish and we certainly don't want to go down the path of Australia. Forty-five years ago, one could go into a store, buy a gun, box of ammo and a cleaning kit, take it home and no one batted an eye. The last time I bought a handgun, I was treated like a criminal. It took me hours to fill out the paperwork, and when I returned a week later after a background check, the clerk wrapped it up like it was a bomb and stapled up the paper bags the gun was encased in. Then they escorted me to the door and told me to put it in the trunk. They also wouldn't sell me ammo at the same time as the gun. This wouldn't have happened in the South, but in my state, if it weren't for the U.S. Constitution, I think guns would be illegal.

But everyone has the right to self defense in my view.

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22

What's With INVISIBLE ??

by Cold Steel in

the 'dubs' came by today just as the wife and i were on the way out.

we chatted a few moments and the two guys wanted to know if i had any questions about the bible.

so i asked them to drop by in a day or two and they left me with two thin magazines and a book they jokingly referred to as "the gold nugget.".

Cold Steel

Bobcat: But I'm wondering, 'How you gonna take a seat beside the King of the universe, and only later be brought before him.' What, did you sneak in the room while he wasn't looking? If you were going to sit beside a high ranking official, wouldn't you first have to be brought before him to get permission or approval?

That’s a great point and I’m ashamed it went over my head. Thanks.

AbleBodied: If that is the case then Jesus Christ saying that; “I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven” falls in line with how you responded to my inquiry.

Well, who saw Satan fall to Earth from Heaven in 1914 unless...oh, I get it. No one reported seeing it unless he...also was invisible, right. Tell me, guys: when are things going to begin becoming visible? We could already be in Paradise Earth, if it was invisible. Everyone could be having a great time and we might be missing out on it if no one can see it.

TD: Well yeah, I would agree that the LDS view of 1 Peter 3:19 makes much more sense, especially to the modern reader. The entire idea comes from 1 Enoch and Moffat even translates the ‘he’ parenthetically as ‘Enoch’ with a footnote explaining why.

The LDS view actually stems from the Apostles’ Creed, which states that Jesus was brought before Pontus Pilot, crucified, dead and buried. Then the creed states, “He descended into Hell.” But what the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Catholics and Protestants don’t explain is why would Jesus “preach” to either the wicked angels or the wicked people who lived during the days of Noah? All we LDS do is point out that it must have had some purpose. Jesus certainly isn’t going to drop by and say, “Just wanted to tell you guys that you’re toast! But I have some new angles on some sermons I’m working on. Uh...would you like to hear them? It won’t affect your being thrown in the pit of fire, but you could let me know if I’m on the right track.”

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20

Who is the faithful and discreet slave?

by wearewatchingyouman in

when i discuss things with my father regarding whether a governing body is needed for christians one theme that is constant with him is "if it's not the gb who is the faithful and discreet slave - who else is giving food in these days to god's people?".

i've been working on a response to this for the last couple of months and am just curious as to who christians who are ex-witnesses interpret the faithful and discreet slave to be, and the parable in general.. .

i guess i'm just looking to round out my argument and have a few different angles.

Cold Steel

WAWYM: When I discuss things with my father regarding whether a governing body is needed for Christians one theme that is constant with him is "if it's not the GB who is the faithful and discreet slave - who else is giving food in these days to God's people?"

It depends on whether the Governing Body is who they say they are. The early Christians were governed by the apostles, who in turn were led by revelation. When the Romans came down on Jerusalem, all the Christians had left. Jesus had told them to "stand in holy places," which ordinarily would have been the temple; however, he also said the temple would be destroyed.

Where were the holy places? They were where the apostles said they were, and they received that information from God. One of the major places Christians gathered to was Pella, to the north of Jerusalem, in Peraea.

The question, of course, is whether the Governing Body would be an adequate "oracle" to lead the people to safety in a time of tribulation. Having read a considerable part of the WTBTS's history, the early claims to be the Lord's official mouthpiece are not tenable. But each person must decide for himself/herself. Given the track record of the Society, I would have grave doubts.

But more to the point, there are countless ministers, reverends, pastors and scholars of varying faiths who feel they have callings to lead others. Every church on Earth feels it is giving spiritual food to others. My grandmothers used to have daily devotional magazines with short stories or essays, a final thought and then a prayer. And every morning the family would read them. They weren't dogmatic in nature, but were aimed at making people better. In many after death experiences, people aren't asked, "What church did you belong to?" but "What did you do to help others?" The Lord, ultimately, wants to know how you've served your fellow man.

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139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Frienderoonie: I really hate that this post is still up top when I clicked on active topics just now. What bugs me is how random it is. Hey did you ever want to take up gladiator reinactments? Did you ever want to take a popcicle stick, break it in two and shove the splintery end up your anus? Did you ever want to take the top to a plastic jug of milk, fill it with a teaspoon of salt water, take it over to the sink and dump it out and then put it back on the jug of milk without washing the small residue of salt that remains on it?

What flavor was the popcicle?

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139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cold Steel

Rawe: I started this this topic as a break point in your thread about a religion based on assumptions. Cofty had suggested you have been using the site to proselytize for your LDS faith. I don't know if you would agree with that or not. In any regards you said you joined "because I’m interested in the Jehovah’s Witness religion."

Thank you for your clarification, Randy. As a matter of fact, I joined this site because my family got dropped like hot potatoes after a branch of our family joined the Jehovah's Witnesses. My grandmother was terrorized by JW literature that spoke of people ceasing to exist at death. The thought of her going into the ground and fading to nothingness was repugnant to her (as it would me). Once I'm dead, however, if I do become non-existent, I don't want to be resurrected.

Part of the LDS faith that appeals to me is that it is predicated on the principle that God is of such a nature that he would never put someone into the horrible situations that exist on the earth -- situations in which the rate of failure were remarkably high -- without first gaining the consent of the person being born into mortality. Because of our premortality, we had the choice of being born and consented to it having a fairly good idea of what we were getting in to. And succeed or fail, it was our decision. All part of free will. We had much to lose, but we also stood a lot to gain.

I realize that organized religion is not for everyone, nor will any revealed religion be fully understood by outsiders. The same was true of early Christianity. It was charged with being a cult, Jesus and his followers had their characters reviled, their doctrines twisted and both were severely persecuted. But the positive comparisons are even more impressive. I don't trust religions run by men who aren't called and ordained by God. The Jehovah's Witnesses leaders were never called of God. None was ordained. No church was formed, and there weren't any biblical offices such as bishops, priests, deacons, teachers, apostles and others. If no church, then no officers; if no officers, no authority; if no authority, then no revelation; and if no revelation, then no church. Thus, while we have general authorities very much like the JW Governing Board, the difference isn't in the suits, the ages of the men, the types of offices they work in, but there is a difference in what they say and do, and the authority by which they do it.

23

Have JWs and other Christians completely missed the point of Matthew 24:4-8?

by Island Man in

many people think those verses are suggesting that the wars, earthquakes, food shortages, etc are all a sign that the end is imminent.

however, a careful examination of the context seems to suggest that jesus was actually forewarning his followers not to draw such a conclusion from such events.

see this interesting article on the subject:.

Cold Steel

Well, Jesus says these things will be signs of his coming, but adds that the end is not yet but are the beginning of sorrows. This already is being fulfilled, but like the seasons, one has to know the signs. We've seen the wars, the fire and smoke in the wars that have taken place already. But even now the end is not yet. The Jews are still flowing into Israel but they have yet to build their temple (Rev. 11). The beast, or Antichrist, has not been revealed, nor the false prophet, nor the two prophets to be raised up to defend Judah.

We see these things working to these ends, and even atheists have to admit that prophecies are taking place. Two hundred years ago, who thought that Israel would be restored as the prophets foretold? How could anyone have predicted it? Isaiah wrote: "Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once?" (Isa. 66:7-8) Yet the nation of Israel was born in a day, and it was brought forth all at once.

Once the Jewish temple is built, the return of Jesus can be measured in not only a single generation, but in just a matter of years. The United States is too strong to allow any nation or kingdom to threaten Israel now, which means that it will no longer be a superpower when the beast arises. In fact, the beast will be largely unopposed when he rises.

16

Archangels

by dog is god in

beng raised n da troof i thought there was one archangel, michael ( aka jesus ).

so i am talking to a woman who mentions that she named her cats after the archangels (plural).

how could i have missed that little gem?

Cold Steel

Humans are supposed to be God’s crowning achievement. So why did he create angels? The word means pretty much the same as apostles, which translates into “sent ones.” But sent where?

According to tradition, Michael is the chief angel, followed by Gabriel.

Some pioneers dropped by and gave me a copy of their Bible Study guide, which they called the “golden nugget.” The book states that angels are spirit beings; that they number in the hundreds of millions and that they are incredibly powerful. In the days of Noah, they took on bodies of flesh, which they manufactured for themselves. They cite no scriptures to back up this fantastic claim, and they fail to note the references of “sons of God” to those who were under the covenant. John states, for example, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.” (John 1:12)

Who Are the Sons of God?

And Paul states: “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” (Romans 8:14) He also wrote to the Philippians: “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philip. 2:15)

John also sees it this way. To him, those who kept their covenants here, in their second estate, would have honor and glory added upon then forevermore. He states that the faithful will have the power to become like God. “BEHOLD, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:1-3) To the Governing Body, this means them and the other anointed; to the rest of you guys, not so much.

In the book of Job, the writer states: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (Job 1:6-7) It’s clear that the earth already was Satan’s habitation. And again, we see the term “sons of God.”

Satan As Archangel

So who were those sons of God? Jeremiah, recall, was chosen and ordained before his birth (see Jeremiah 1:5). So apparently all the creations of God are called the “sons of God” — whether angels or humans. So these angels “left their place in God’s heavenly family, came down to the earth and took on fleshly bodies,” Why? Because they began to notice that the daughters of men were hot, so they wanted to come down and marry them. Meanwhile, Jehovah was not amused. He forced the angels to return to heaven as spirit creatures. They put themselves on the side of the Devil, who became the ruler of the demons. Thus Satan not only was an archangel of God, but later led his own forces as well.

Then the book cites Matthew 9:34: “But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils!”

That’s it? Where does it say the angels took on fleshly bodies? How, exactly, did they do that? Where does it say they had to abandon those bodies and return to heaven? And where does it say they joined Satan and his angels? Satan and his angels rebelled in the beginning and took with him a third of the hosts of heaven. In Revelation, John saw that the dragon’s tail took one third of the stars of heaven and cast them to Earth. That’s when he was expelled, not 1914. (Otherwise, how did he tempt those who lived before that year?)

How do the writers of this book know the sons of God weren’t the people of the covenant, and that the daughters of men weren’t those who had rejected the covenant? The scripture states: when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.” (Gen. 6)

There is nothing supernatural going on here at all. The offspring of the covenant people were not supernatural but were regarded as mighty men, the heroes of old. According to the little yellow book, the angels returned to heaven but were shunned by their angel brothers and treated as outcasts “like their ruler, Satan.” Once back, these recalcitrant angels were now unable to take upon themselves fleshly bodies, we’re told, but all of this is conjecture and completely missing from the scriptures. Like the house that Jack built, one supposition gives way to another until you have an entire story based on nothing at all...just three words: sons of God.

If there is a pecking order in heaven, then the archangels aren’t handling those under them very well, according to JW doctrine.

Oh, by the way, do angels have wings?

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